The Vulvalution

Female Reproductive Anatomy 101

• Season 1 • Episode 2

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How well do you really know your anatomy? In this episode, we call up Robin, a certified sexual health educator from Options for Sexual Health, to bust myths and break down everything you didn’t learn in health class about female reproductive anatomy and pleasure. From “the bean” to the clitoris, we’re talking slang, science, and everything school skipped.


💬 Got more questions after listening? Visit optionsforsexualhealth.org/sex-sense to connect with the Sex Sense team for free, confidential advice.

 

Episode Resources: 

Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life, by Emily Nagoski (2015)

Better Sex Through Mindfulness: How Women Can Cultivate Desire, by Lori Brotto (2018)

 

Robin:

It is the only part of the human body of any human body that's solely designed for pleasure. You should have the driver's manual to what's under your hood, and we know that increased knowledge of basic anatomy can only lead to increased. Health and increased pleasure. have a look, touch the parts to be like, okay, this is this. Okay. That's what's happening. Rather than having it shrouded in this mystery

Mathilde:

Hey, vulva squad!

Sabrina:

Welcome back to The Vulvalution. We've missed you. We're so excited for you to hear today's episode.

Mathilde:

Yeah, we had so much fun

Sabrina:

We just finished recording it and we learned so much all about female anatomy. Yeah.

Mathilde:

And then we also touch on pleasure. Yes. Sexual pleasure, which was very interesting. Yeah.

Sabrina:

Often like related to female anatomy. So it came up kind of naturally in the conversation, but I think you'll learn a lot. As well about pleasure and sexual health generally.

Mathilde:

Yeah. And we had so much fun and we got really excited. So it might be a little longer than 45 minutes, sorry. But I think. You're gonna like every minute of it.

Sabrina:

And one of the things I'm most excited that we talked about was the difference between the vulva and the vagina. Which is really kind of the part that motivated our name for The Vulvalution. So I'm really excited. I think after this episode, our listeners, the Vulva Squad will start. Being able to actually properly refer to their vulva As their vulva.

Mathilde:

Yeah. Or any other part of your reproductive system. Yeah. And we also explained why it's important to know these parts, and the answer was very interesting.

Sabrina:

So without further ado, let's get into it. Today we're joined over the phone by Robin, a certified sexual health educator and sex expert from Options for Sexual Health. Options for Sexual Health is a BC based organization that provides sexual and reproductive healthcare education and information from a feminist pro-choice and sex positive perspective.

Mathilde:

One of their incredible services is the free sex sense line, where anyone in BC or in the Yukon can call and speak, confidentially with a registered nurse or a certified sex educator about anything related to sex, sexuality, or sexual health. And today we're calling in ourselves to get answers to all of our questions about female sexual anatomy and beyond.

Sabrina:

All right, so let's give them a call.

Robin:

Ring, sex sense. How can I help you?

Sabrina:

Hi Robin. This is the volution. We were wondering if you would take some time to answer some questions about female anatomy.

Robin:

Absolutely. There's nothing I like better to do.

Mathilde:

Robin. Welcome to the Volution.

Robin:

I'm so happy to be here. My favorite topic and this is wonderful, you're making this podcast.

Mathilde:

Yes. Well, thank you to accepting to speak to us. First off, I wanted to ask if you could start by telling our listeners a bit more about options for sexual health as an organization and the kinds of service that you provide.

Robin:

Absolutely. So Options for Sexual Health has been around for 60 years in the province of BC It was formerly Planned Parenthood of bc so some people might recognize that.

Sabrina:

Yeah, I think I've heard that.

Robin:

Yeah. An international organization, but in many times the name has evolved. And the mission of Options for Sexual Health is to champion and celebrate the sexual health of all people in British Columbia. So we sort of do that through four different programs or pillars of our organization. So one would be we have clinics, we have options for sexual health clinics around the province, over 50 locations. And at those clinics. Yeah, quite a few. And at those clinics, people can get free contraception, they can have pro-choice pregnancy counseling, pregnancy testing, STI testing and treatment. Uh, they can talk about their contraception options. They can have cervical screening, sexual health needs that might be. Checking for yeast infections or bacterial vaginosis. So all of that happens at our options clinics. And then another pillar, another program of options is the education program. So we have field educators that teach sex ed in schools, but also in other contexts. So to professionals. So that might be to teachers or social workers. That might be to youth in custody, that might be to adults, to help adults be. Askable adults that can answer questions that their kids or young people they're in charge of might have.

Sabrina:

Wow. That's such a fantastic program. I feel like it's so common that kids go to their parents and they have no idea what to say

Robin:

and parents react with our generational responses of either shame, fear, if someone asks about something that means they're doing something. Yeah. So it's a really important component. The Askable adult series That's been created to go along with any education in schools elsewhere. Yes. Yeah. And then one of the most exciting programs, which I was in the inaugural cohort is our check program, sexual health education certification program. So that allows people who aren't nurses. So previously it was largely registered nurses. Who went into schools to teach or it was your gym teacher. Uh, and so options created this program which allowed people who maybe had an education background just like myself, or social workers or counselors, even doctors, have taken the program midwives, anyone who wants to really up their sexual health knowledge teaching game uh, can take this program, which makes someone certified as a sexual health educator.

Sabrina:

Wow. Wow. I feel like that's like so missing from a lot of like medical education for people.

Robin:

Exactly. So when you're thinking about someone who might be a nurse, that's the whole body. So for example, you may know about 8 1 1, the nurse line. And they often refer to sex sense when people call 8 1 1 with specific sexual health questions. They will refer to us. So we are sort of sex senses under the umbrella of health link. Interesting. And so we always get referrals from there because sexual health can be so specific.

Sabrina:

Yeah. Okay. That was such a great overview. It seems like Options for Sexual Health is doing everything. That's important. I gotta

Robin:

tell you about two other pillars. Oh my gosh. So we've got the clinics, we've got the education program, then we have Sex Sense where, which is where I work as a sex expert. So Sex Sense, as you referred to, is a free confidential line. People don't need to give their care card, they don't need to give their names. We're open Monday to Friday, 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM people can call with any sexual health questions. Wow. And they can also email in questions as well. Wow. And so we are a free, we've answered calls from age eight to 80 about anything under the sexual health, sun, sexuality, anything under that topic. And then lastly, options also has advocacy and community outreach. So that might be meaning at Queer Proms being, having a presence there. Uh, and different advocating for more sexual health awareness or funding across bc.

Sabrina:

Wow. Wow. Doing all the important work, really.

Robin:

Absolutely. Yeah. Filling a gap.

Sabrina:

Yes. An enormous gap. Yeah.

Mathilde:

You mentioned eight to 80. I think that's like, Ugh. So great. Yeah. To know that even if you're under 18, you can call and even if you're older, you might have questions and it's okay.

Sabrina:

Well, I think that's a misconception is that by some age, whatever it be, like 40, 50, all of your sexual health questions will be answered. And that's certainly not true. Yeah.'cause we're always evolving. Yeah.

Robin:

We certainly have, for that older demographic, we might be getting calls about menopause. So our relationship with our bodies change is so much over our lifespan. Yeah. And our needs change. So we might have calls about menopause. From someone who's older. But I've also had some amazing conversations with people who are recent widows or widowers. Who might've been in a marriage for decades. Starting to date in their sixties, seventies, eighties, and calling and saying, I haven't even used a condom. Right. I don't know anything about sdi. I was in a monogamous relationship. I'm wanting to date. I know nothing. Totally. And so that's a really exciting conversation to have. Yes. Uh, as those needs change.

Sabrina:

Yeah. Wow. That's so important that there is a line that somebody in that situation can call or like any sexual questions.

Mathilde:

Yeah,

Robin:

absolutely. And we also support nurses, doctors, social workers. We get calls from counselors in schools, so we also support professionals who need to support their clients, patients, students as well.

Sabrina:

Wow. Can you tell us one, like one of the most common questions you get when people call in?

Robin:

Well, there's lots of variations of, am I normal? Right. Is this normal? So that might be anything from something that was found on the genitals to a feeling, to a kink. To something that turns someone on to their sexual orientation to their, uh, gender identity. So there are so many questions about that. Now, the realm of normal is huge, the spectrum is huge and people are all along that spectrum. So things generally fall in the realm of normal. Right. There's some things where we might say you might wanna get that checked out or follow up with some medical care. Or speak with a therapist if some things are causing people negative issues. Right. How much do I masturbate? Is that normal? Right? Is this too often? Am I addicted? So we get questions about everything. Super interesting. I would say largely our topics are largely about contraception. And STIs. So in terms of contraception, we are battling a lot of misinformation Yes. Showing up on the internet. Yeah. So we often say to people, don't go down the rabbit hole of Google. Call us directly.'cause our uh, information is medically based. Right. Medically sound proven, not anecdotal. It's not someone saying, I had a terrible experience with that birth control method. Yeah. We actually have the stats, the data.

Mathilde:

That's great. That's something that I would've needed when I had questions about contraceptions. Yeah. Yeah. I think you

Sabrina:

mentioned in the beginning

Mathilde:

of in our

Sabrina:

inter episode, she had like some hormonal issues and that's her re own research into that is what inspired you to get into women's health.

Robin:

Oh. And we, I think many of us who are in sexual health are like. Oh, if only I'd known this earlier. Yes. If only this information had been shared publicly or given versus sort of being like, what's happening with me? Am I normal? Are these changes with this contraception to be expected? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and that information just empowers people to make a choice from an informed perspective. Versus a fearful place or uh, yes. A spot of misinformation. And this has been an ad for the volution. You should listen to the vation. Listen, I am already subscribed in my mind. I'm on this.

Sabrina:

Lovely, love to hear that. Okay. One of the interesting things I learned from looking on the options for sexual health website is that you're very inclusive, whether that's with gender identity or sexual orientation.'cause we're about to talk a lot about female anatomy in general. Would you tell us a little bit about how, like what stance you take and what tools you use to make sure all of your language stays gender inclusive and inclusive to all sexual orientation?

Robin:

So being inclusive is at the heart of our organization. And so the way we can do that on sex sense and in our conversations. So for example, talking about the vulva, the first thing I recognize is that not all people who have vulvas identify as women. So there are non-binary people who have vulvas, there are trans men who have vulvas. There are people who might have, uh, a different identity or a perception of themselves that doesn't fall into those labels. But have a vulva. So we wanna use language that, uh, embraces everyone who has that specific anatomy. And they may not all be women. So that's part of that conversation. Uh. At the heart of it is when we have conversations with people is not assuming what people's genitals are based on their voice or what their questions are, not assuming the genitals of their partners. So those are sometimes questions we ask, you know? Right. We have to ask delicate questions. Can I ask, what are the genitals we're talking about so that we can wonder if we're talking about pregnancy protection, are we just thinking about STIs? What type of sex is happening in terms of those questions? Yeah, not assuming people's gender, their sexual orientation, who their partners are, what they're doing, what the genitals. We're not assuming that people are in monogamous relationships. So again, with that spectrum, we are talking in a way that is curious, not making any assumptions and including everyone.

Sabrina:

Yeah. I feel like the, like underlying theme of everything you just said, we can really take into our conversations throughout the volution, which is really stop assuming and just start asking

Mathilde:

So we have one more question before getting into more of the anatomy, female anatomy questions. So we were wondering what brought you into the space of sexual health education?

Robin:

Well, probably like all of us in this field, I was quite a shameless person in terms of having these conversations from the beginning, had a curiosity, was very aware of like, why aren't we talking about these things? Why aren't we talking? I love that. Yeah. Yeah. About our bodies. I'm sure you can both relate. Yeah. This is like what is happening here? And the person who is not afraid to have those conversations. Very curious. And also seeing those gaps, as you mentioned, Matilda. Seeing those gaps in terms of. Why do I not know about this? Why is this information hidden or inaccessible?

Mathilde:

Yeah.

Robin:

So being a person like that, I started volunteering with Options for Sexual Health and with the Sex Sense Line back when it was called The Facts of Lifeline many years ago. And I started as a volunteer from seeing an ad on the bus. So we have sex sense ads on trends.

Sabrina:

Oh, I've seen one of those.

Robin:

Oh yeah, sure. We do Sure have all over bc. And so I saw that on the bus and thought, you know, that might be really fun to do, looking for some volunteer work. So I volunteered and I loved it. I mean, talking about if you're someone who likes talking about sex and likes, uh, giving people a space where they can do that. I loved being a volunteer. And I volunteered at one of the options clinics as well. And then that's when Options created their first sexual health education certification program. And I thought I'd love to do that. And so I did that program and then taught in schools for about a year as part of my practicum teaching. From grade three to 12 sexual education. And then from there went on to be hired for a sex sense and have done it ever since. So it's something I love and I think all of us. Uh, come to this work with our utopia vision of the world. In terms of sex. And for me it's about self-expression. So the more we can have these conversations means that the more people can express their needs, their desires Their fears, their medical concerns. Who they are, their identity, their sense of self, and that is a beautiful world.

Mathilde:

It's great that they have a space to, that they can talk about it.'cause I feel like it's something that we don't really talk about with our family. For sure. Yeah. For myself. And then with your friends, maybe sometimes if you have like a different kinks or like different, uh, views of sexual just ideas, then it might be you might be shy or you might think that it's not normal. So it's good to. And it's good to know the

Sabrina:

person on the other end of the line is so open and creating a space that's so not shameful that it's not scary to call in.

Robin:

Absolutely. So we focus on being youth friendly, sex positive, non-judgmental.

Sabrina:

Fantastic. That's great. I love that. Yeah. Okay, let's get into the anatomy a little bit more and our educational part of our episode, we were thinking we could start off with a fun game. I love games. I love games. I'm here for this. Fantastic. Okay, well this one's called name that part, and it's really rooted in the fact that people are often uncomfortable referring to their genitalia, and they often use maybe silly names or fun little things so they don't have to directly say My Volvo or my vagina. Which totally understandable. Again, we've been talking about people feel very shameful about their body and also they might just not have a clear understanding of what is what down there. Absolutely. So I'm gonna throw out a fun name that some people use to refer to something in their genitalia. And I'd love if you could guess what we're talking about first. Sure thing. I wish I brought a vibrator to buzz in. Oh yeah. When I know I have the answer, so I'll just make the buzzing sound. That would've been beautiful. And then also if you could clear up anything that might be inaccurate or misinformation about the thing, feel free to elaborate on that. Okay. Are you ready? I am ready, yes. Let's get into it. First one is the va, jj.

Robin:

So I, people are most commonly referring to the vagina when they say va, jj. And this gets us a little bit into the fact that sometimes people just refer to the genitals as the vagina. As the whole area or the idea that. We might say most boys or men have a penis. Most women or girls have a vagina. So vagina kind of is suggesting the whole area. Yeah. Some like all encompassing turn Exactly like there is the, that's what's down there, but that is actually the internal part of the body. So sometimes people are saying, va, jj, or vagina, when actually they're talking about that external area that we can see and touch on the outside, which is called, which is the vulva,

Sabrina:

vulva nation. The Vian. Yeah, exactly. V. Okay. Yeah, that was great clarification. I love the term p jj personally. It's a fun one. Yeah.

Robin:

There is no shame if it's working for you, but it is important to know the right words. Because when you're going to a doctor's office Yes. Or you wanna talk about what's going on, you wanna be specific about where things are. Or if they ask you specifically, are you feeling the pain in your vagina or is it in the vestibule? Whatever might be asked. You wanna be able to know what you're talking about. Yeah. A blanket down there. Yeah. Pain down there is not gonna help you get the diagnosis that you want.

Sabrina:

That's so true. And like vaginal pain, like internal pain is very different than vulva or like outside pain. Vaginal. If you're just saying vagina Yeah. It's like what? Yeah, exactly. So true.

Mathilde:

Okay. Another name that is commonly referred is The Bean. Z.

Robin:

Yes. So people might have heard this one in reference to flicking the bean. Which is a slang term for masturbation and the bean meaning the clitoris. So the clitoris that we'll get into this a little bit further a little later. But the clitoris, that area, that nerve pleasure center for many people in the vulva is something that is like a little nub, a little p, a little bean shape. So it kind of refers to the size and the shape a bit there. Flicking might be something that someone does, but there are a lot of other types of strokes as well. So flicking may not be your personal type of touch you want for the bean, but that's certainly, uh, one that people might try. Okay.

Sabrina:

Okay. Okay. How about the curtains.

Robin:

So the curtains, there can be all sorts of misogynistic slang that goes with curtains, but with curtains, people are referring to the labia. So the folds of skin, the frilly folds of skin that surround the openings of the vulva.

Mathilde:

Okay. Okay. Another word is the oven that's most commonly heard as. Bun in the oven, which I have never heard of before. I just asked Sabrina before the podcast. So could you tell us what is the bun?

Robin:

Yeah, well the would be referring to the uterus. Yeah. And a bit more of an old fashioned term. So we know in the old days, people perhaps wouldn't wanna say that they're pregnant or reveal that they're pregnant. So kind of was a EU euphemism bun in the oven, meaning someone is pregnant, there's something cooking in your uterus. Okay, the baby is baking in your uterus. All of that seems a little bit like, maybe like keep the temperature a little more even keel than high up, you know? But I, the idea that something's growing, baking, rising.

Sabrina:

Interesting. Very interesting. Interesting. Okay. How about the coochie or the punani? We could really go on this whole podcast could just be slang, dreams. Yeah. There's so many.

Robin:

So again, with those, some people might be referring to the vagina. Mm-hmm. Or they might be referring to the vulva. So again, there's that misunderstanding about what part is what. And we even saw that you might've heard about a very famous theater show that was created years ago that was always performed on Valentine's Day, called the Vagina Monologues. And all the monologues were really about the vulva. Uh, so that word gets used interchangeably as those slang terms might be used and someone could be referring to their vagina or they might be referring to their vulva.

Sabrina:

Yeah. No, I think that's such a common misconception and part of the inspiration behind our name, the vul. Yeah.

Mathilde:

I think that many people grew up without a clear understanding of their anatomy just like we said, the vulva or the vagina. And we just discuss why it's so important to know different parts of female anatomy. But I was just wondering if you have an idea of why sexual health education is so often overlooked in schools and beyond? From my personal experience in school, I had very limited sex ed education. And I think a lot of me too other schools do. And we also, maybe we had one class about it and we learned all about, uh, female anatomy, but then 10 years later we just forgot about most of it. Yeah. It doesn't

Sabrina:

continue in conversations either. Yeah.

Mathilde:

And then we keep mixing vulva, vagina, or we don't know the cervix or other parts of our female anatomy,

Robin:

like almost all of us limited sexual education. I even think about, I have an 8-year-old and she gets an hour of sex ed a year. We would never say, let's have an hour of math. No. Yeah, let's have an hour of any other subject.

Sabrina:

It sounds ridiculous when you say it like that. It's

Robin:

unbelievable. It is ridiculous. So, you know, I'm so glad she has me at home who'll talk day and night about everything. But to have an hour to understand a part of your own body that like comes into so many different parts of your life and keeps coming up.'cause it's attached to you. A key part of what it is to be human. Yeah.

Sabrina:

Right.

Robin:

So not only just the physical aspect, but to be a sexual being. And to have a healthy sexual lifespan. And to have so little knowledge about it. It is, it's heartbreaking and it robs us, I mean, an essential part of what it is to be human. I think about like, kids in school will do more research projects on the reproduction of animals. That's true. So if you're doing like a topic, how do they reproduce? Yet we can't talk about how humans reproduce. Yeah. So it is so sad that way. And as sheer question Matilda about why misogyny, patriarchy, puritanism. Absolute fear. Generational silence and trauma of not talking about these things. Yeah. So there are so many reasons we don't have those topics. And there is this vastly misguided fear that the more you talk about it, the more kids will do. It has been proven in studies again and again, that's not the case. So is an amazing organization, in Vancouver, the McCreary Institute, that do these very in-depth studies with BC students. And so those studies, they're completely confidential, anonymous. Those studies reveal that sexual debut for BC students and teenagers the age has gotten later and later. At the first time they have sex or first intercourse, or sexual debut is later. And for the majority people, it's happening after they graduate high school. So this idea that you teach it and then they'll start doing it, it's quite the opposite. Yeah. And of course, the more information people have, they can protect themselves against infections from pregnancy, if that's part of the equation as a risk. And have more enjoyable, uh, relationships, people Yeah. Which is an important part. More mature. Right. More pleasure, more enjoyable. We're protecting people in terms of their safety against abuse and assault. We're helping create a culture that understands consent and boundaries. And that can only serve all of us.

Mathilde:

Very interesting. The more you talk about it, maybe the less they'll do it, the more you just. Not talk about it or you're taboo. Well, I feel like

Sabrina:

there's always that like understanding that when you don't quite understand something, you're more curious about it. Yeah. The unknown. Yeah. Just like giving people the facts. Then they're less, maybe less likely to explore it until they're ready and they want to, for other reasons other than just curiosity.

Robin:

Well, they'll make a choice based on education.

Sabrina:

Yeah. Based on informed decision making. Informed decision making. Right? Yes.

Robin:

And consent and kind of go in knowing, okay, I might wanna do this, but I might not wanna do that. Right. I feel comfortable with this I don't feel comfortable with. I'm not ready to entertain these risks for whatever reason. Or saying my priority in the relationship might be this. So there's many different reasons, but it's again, knowing yourself, expressing your needs and wants and being able to follow through.

Sabrina:

Yeah. Yeah. I think we touched a bit on this a little bit earlier, but I just wanna reiterate. Why do you think it's so important for people, and especially in the context of this conversation, people with female anatomy or female reproductive anatomy? Why do you think it's so important for us to actually understand our body and understand the right language to refer to different parts of our anatomy?

Robin:

Well, first of all, it's yours. You own it. It belongs to you. You should have the driver's manual to what's under your hood, right? You should know what's going on there. And we know that increased knowledge of basic anatomy can only lead to increased. Health and increased pleasure. So those are important things to know. You should know what is under the hood, what you have got between your legs. And again, as we talked a bit about already being able to communicate to a doctor or a health professional, but being also be able to communicate to your partners. I like when this specific area is touched, that's too sensitive. I like this type of touch in this area and to explore and understand what feels good and be able to communicate to that partner, which can only make for better sex between people. We also are always thinking about it in terms of young people and their safety. So in terms of sexual abuse of children, we have had studies and information where we know that, pedophiles might go seek to start something to abuse a child who is not using correct body part language, because a child who's not using that language. The information to, uh, an abuser would be this person isn't having conversations with another adult. And then a child couldn't communicate where they were touched. So there's all sorts of heartbreaking stories where a child is try to communicate that they've been abused, but because they don't have the actual language of where they were touched. Right. Or there's cute, fun little language, or not the correct language that they aren't able to communicate what has happened. Whoa. Yeah. So it's an important part of safety for young people about needing to be able to know, and which areas are private to you that other people can't touch. They're for you to touch as a child, not for other people. Another one under which context for a doctor or something that you might have. Right. Someone might need to touch your genitals to check for your health, or cleaning you or washing you. There are those contexts that we always talk about, but that's so important to be able to, for the safety of children, of all adults, to be able to have. Those conversations.

Sabrina:

Yeah. Wow. That's such an interesting example I've never even thought about, but it's so true. So true. Yeah. Well that's why we're here today to talk about female anatomy. Yes. So if you're here to learn, now is the time. You've already learned a lot from this conversation, I'm sure, but let's get into the actual anatomy. Why

Mathilde:

don't we? So this is gonna be interesting'cause we're trying to teach you female anatomy through a podcast. So you might just be listening and, not really know where we are at. So we recommend maybe to pull up a diagram if you want, just to have an idea of where we're at. Yeah. But we'll

Sabrina:

try to be as descriptive with our language as possible. Yes. So you'll hopefully be able to follow if you're just listening, if you're driving. But no, if you wanna get the whole thing, you might want a diagram.

Robin:

And if I may suggest, if you are not driving or walking on the street, in your person with a vulva that you hop up on your bathroom counter. And take a look at your vulva in the mirror. Yeah. And as I walk you through the map of those parts. You can take a look. You can also, you know, choose to use your phone camera, but might wanna delete it so it doesn't come up in your memory's reel a year from now. Oh yeah. But you might wanna take a picture, a video of your own genitals. They're yours, they belong to you. Have a look. That's one of the key components true of being really aware of what you've got and being able to take care of it and get more pleasure from your vulva. Yeah. Is having a look.

Sabrina:

And I almost wonder if like, a lot of the reasoning behind it all kind of getting mixed into one is that you can't see it without a mirror.

Robin:

Absolutely. It's under really get a mirror underneath you, right? So get a mirror, have a look, touch the parts to be like, okay, this is this. Okay. That's what's happening. Yeah. Rather than having it shrouded in this mystery that other people might see and maybe you don't.

Sabrina:

Yes. Yes. Love that. Okay. Get your mirrors out, everyone, or your diagrams, whatever you're comfortable with, or just listen and you'll learn. Let's get into it.

Mathilde:

Okay. So let's start from the outside. Okay. So from the outside, what we can see first is the vulva, not the vagina. So can you tell us a little bit of what's the difference may from the vulva and the vagina?

Robin:

So we can think of the vulva as the external skin of the genitals. So it's all the parts that touch your underwear, right? The external parts. So it includes a lot of different, parts of that, which we'll go over. And then the vagina is the internal part. Right? So the vaginal canal is internal on the inside. And so the vagina's not actually outside your body. It's inside your body. And the vulva is referring to all those parts that can be touched on the outside.

Sabrina:

Okay. Okay. And if we're thinking about the vul, I feel like there's so many different parts, whether it's like the labia, everything else down there. Yeah. Can you walk us through the important parts or like the. Parts people might need to reference, for example.

Robin:

Absolutely. So if we are looking in the mirror, looking at a diagram, so let's start at the top. So above the clitoris, which we'll get to, but there's the mons pubis, so that's the fleshy spongy bit of kind of fatty tissue. That mi pubic hair on it. Okay. It's sort of at the top. That's at the very beginning. And that, cushiness helps people to not, uh, if they're having sex or having friction, that gives a little bit of padding and a bit of comfort. Oh. Versus like, maybe perhaps more bone on bone. Yeah, that makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. Right. It's the bodies are built to have this be enjoyable.

Sabrina:

Ideally

Robin:

They were thinking, right, this design is very clever. and then if we go down from there, the first thing you're gonna hit is the clitoris. First of all, I'll just give a kind of overall map view and then we'll dig a little bit deeper. Okay. Unpack or unbox, so to speak. The specifics, to go back to our slang terms. So we'll get down to the clitoris, the nerve center. And that is like a p shaped little nub, a little button. Uh, a little part that sticks out from the body. It has a hood. And so that hood again is, actual contact on the glands, which is the visible part of the clitoris can be too stimulating. That can be too forceful and feel uncomfortable. Oh, so the hood offers a bit of protection against direct stimulation. That's different for every person. They might like some more of that direct that might become chy. So the hood is having a little bit of protection there.

Mathilde:

Okay.

Robin:

And then if we travel down from the clitoris, just south of there is the urethra. So, or rather the urethral opening.'cause the urethra is internal again. Right. And so that is

Sabrina:

our pee hole pee hole. Nailed it. So that's where, nailed it.

Robin:

That's where the urine comes out. Yes. and so this is a real misconception about the vulva is that we often, when we go into schools, we say, okay, so. Most boys or men have two openings between their legs. How many openings do most girls or women have?

Sabrina:

So funny. We went on UBC campus and we were asking a bunch of questions of women's, about women's health. And this is one that we asked How many holes do women or of people with female anatomy have No one knew. Isn't it unbelievable? And we would, we're always refining our language. We would say openings.

Robin:

Holes kind of sounds cavernous or empty or yes. we would say opening. Opening would think of the language of the big holes except something that's gaping. Right. Hanging open, which is not actually, what's the vagina's doing? No. But we would say openings. Okay. More typically in terms of evolving our language to be more accurate and positive. And so there are in fact how many

Mathilde:

openings? Three. Three.

Robin:

Three. So wait, urethra is one of them. So the urethra is just urine. Coming outta the body. And then below that we have the vagina. And so the vagina, or I should say the vaginal opening, the vagina's on the inside, so specifically the vaginal opening. Okay. Leading to the vagina. And so that is where menstrual blood would come out. So someone's having their period, it's coming out of the vagina. So you would put your tampon in the vagina. In the vagina, not in the urethra. So sometimes young people might wonder, could I get it in the urethra? No, you cannot. So that's a very small opening. You're not gonna miss, you're not gonna miss. Right. Uh, you can't mistakenly put a tampon in the urethra. So the vaginal opening, that's where you would insert a tampon. That's where people might have insertive sex. So that might be a penis, a dildo, a vibrator, a sex toy can be inserted into the vagina. And that's of course where for someone who had a vaginal birth where the baby might travel out of. Interesting. So that's how the vagina works. Now there are many people, probably listeners to this, who never got this information. And there are people who take out their tampons to pee. Thinking that it's all coming out of the same place. It is not, your tampon can be in situ while you're peeing, you know, you can always pull the string to the side so you don't the urine can flow down the string and then you're gonna feel all wet in your underwear. but you can keep the tampon in. Maybe you change it every time you use the washroom to pee, but maybe you don't have to. And you can leave that in place. So those are two different places. And that again, is many people aren't aware that there is not just one opening for urine, blood, babies, insertion, all those things. Yeah. Right. And then if we keep going south from, the urethra, we're getting to the perineum. So that's the little bit of landscape between the vagina and the anus. Also very sensitive nerve endings, but that's that little strip of highway between the vagina and the anus, and then surrounding the whole vulva as part of the vulva. But around those openings, I should say, are the lab. So we have the outer labia and the inner labia. Now I will mention that people also use and hear the term, labia majora. And labia menorah. Right. So the majora is referring to the outer labia or lips. Is what some people say slang term curtains. Or the inner, so the menorah, the labia menorah, we've kind of moved away from that language. And the reason why is that suggests that maybe the majora are always bigger or more major, and the labia menorah are smaller or more minor. And that's not actually the case. We often talk about vulvas are like snowflakes. No one like the other. And so we think more about outer and inner labia because the inner labia can be longer than the outer labia they can be. Not minor at all. So the great website, scarlet teen.com, which has excellent sexual health information, they have a great article there called Give Them Some Lip Labia That Ain't Minor. And so talking about those differences in the labia and the difference in the size, so we do try to say outer and inner to reflect that it doesn't mean that the outer ones are necessarily bigger than the inner ones. Interesting. Now the outer ones are sort of fleshy and to describe verbally we can sort of think about is two brackets around those openings. So around the clitoris meeting up at the Mons Pubis. Coming down around, the body and then the inner labia are kind of traveling from the top of the clitoris down around below the vagina. So sort of framing like brackets. And that can be frilly skin. Uh, quite difference in skin in terms of the outer labia, it's kind of puffy. And both serve protective purposes for the openings. Okay. So both for the urethra and the vagina, but also the inner labia are incredibly sensitive and have a lot of nerves and can really play into, sexual pleasure. So those getting rubbed against. And they also provide a little lubrication as well.

Sabrina:

Interesting. Wow. Yeah, so interesting. The way I'm thinking about it right now, and I don't know if this makes any sense, but is that like the labia, like the eyelids to the eye? Oh, in the way that like the labia are like covering or protecting, playing like a. Outside role. Yeah. For the vaginal opening. Yeah. It's not the same, but that's how I'm thinking about it.

Robin:

I'll buy that for a dollar, but also with an added pleasure bonus.

Sabrina:

Yes. Which we love and should not be left outta the conversation

Robin:

more that keeps rubbing against stuff, right? If you are inserting something into the vagina or playing around that area, those labia are super sensitive.

Sabrina:

Kinda like the satisfaction when your eyes itchy and then you're like itching your eyelid. Just like that.

Robin:

Although maybe four more in private than rubbing your eye.

Sabrina:

Yes. Yeah.

Mathilde:

But it's interesting to know that they, both, the majora and Menorah, they both serve the same or similar. We don't call them that anymore. Well, yeah, sorry. The outside and the inside odor and

Robin:

inner labia. Okay. You can use that, but we just wanna reference that language suggests something that may not be accurate to people's bodies. Yes.

Mathilde:

Okay. So the like both easy could be larger, smaller. But both, they both have the same or similar function of being protective or like cushions.

Robin:

Yeah. So absolutely. It's more like to kind of filter out dirt, bacteria, things getting in, but also the pleasure component is a big part of it, right? More fleshy bits that can have some friction. And some added action during any movement down there.

Sabrina:

Phenomenal.

Mathilde:

Now that we describe the vulva, I wanna talk more about the clitoris, which is a very interesting part of our anatomy. I'll be like,

Sabrina:

the most famous

Mathilde:

organ ever known.

Sabrina:

Yeah.

Mathilde:

And I think that a lot of people don't really know what it looks like or where, dunno where it is. It is classic question. Yeah. Yeah. So we wanna ask you can you tell us a little bit more about this like, magical organ?

Robin:

Absolutely. And it certainly has received some good promos over the last 50 years, right? Where it was a mystery organ. And now we're having a sense of how magical it is. It is the only part of the human body of any human body that's solely designed for pleasure. That's its only jaw.

Mathilde:

Wow.

Robin:

You're not peeing out of it. You're not ejaculating out of it. It is just for pleasure. So it has the most nerve endings in the vulva. So something between eight and 10,000 nerve endings. Wow. Wow. It is, you know, highly sensitive to touch, many people through touching the clitoris can reach orgasm. So for many people's sexual activity or masturbating, if they have a vulva, might be paying some good attention to the clitoris. But the interesting thing to know, so that clitoris, what we see on the outside is only the tip of the iceberg. Literally,

Sabrina:

I've heard this, it's like a wishbone shape or something.

Robin:

Exactly. That's exactly what it's like. So interesting. We're recording this, you might be listening to this anytime of the year, but we're recording this close to Thanksgiving weekend. And so I'll be looking at that wishbone and thinking about the clitoris. If you're a Turkey eater, you can do the same. And then the great gynecologist Dr. Jen Gunter, who has written some great books I'd highly recommend describes the clitoris as an upside down. Why? So again, if you think about, if you. You can make a Y or a V with your fingers and then turn it upside down. Then the, you have the two parts, which are the legs or the arms or the wings of the clitoris. Those are called the cura. And then there's the tip that we see and it's kind of folded over. So the wishbone, the top of the wishbone, or that base of the Y is kind of folded over. That's the part we see and the kura go in the body. And so most of the clitoris is underground. So those arms are wings of the clitoris. The wishbone parts extend back from the clitoris on the outside and surround and travel along, uh, kind of under the labia around the vagina and the urethra. Kind of again, framing and bracketing inside the body. So when people are talking about clitoral stimulation. It is not just talking about the part we can see interesting. So clitoral stimulation could be touching all about the vestibule area. So touching the labia, all of that external touch that's not the bean part can also be stimulating the clitoris as can. Things inserted into the vagina. Interesting. So actual things inserted into the vagina, whether that be intercourse or using a sex toy or a dildo or a penis or anything like that, is actually giving clitoral stimulation from the inside, that inside structure, which is substantially bigger than the outside structure.

Sabrina:

Interesting. How come some people can get internal stimulation versus some people only externally? Is the external part like more nerves or too sensitive?

Robin:

Yeah. Great question. So we would say that pleasure is hyper individual. Right. So for some people, and it also might be just how you learn to masturbate growing up, right? There might be different ways you've explored your body and habituated yourself to reaching orgasm so that external, some people they might like that, that might feel too much or too much sensation. So internal stimulation is still getting the clitoris, right? It's getting the arms or the wings of the clitoris. So that might be what they enjoy more. And we also know that for some people inside the vagina. It's sort of the only, the first third that has nerve endings and farther in there aren't, but the whole vagina can respond and feel pressure. So that's why pressure can feel good inside as well, inside the vagina. But you're also stimulating that clitoris as well from the inside. Interesting. So it really is, some people might like a combo platter. Some people might like to have both. Right? So some people might have intercourse and have a vibrator on the clitoris. At the same time. They might be touching their clitoris while someone's inside them, with either a penis or a sex toy or a dildo. Uh, someone, the partner might be touching the clitoris at the same time, or they might just want that internal stimulation, which again, is still getting the clitoris. It might be touching areas on the outside that aren't the clitoris at all. So in that labia area, the vestibule area, all of that can bring people. Extreme pleasure.

Sabrina:

Wow. Yeah. I feel like such a misconception about what the clitoris is where it is. So this is gonna help clarify a lot of things for a lot of

Mathilde:

people, I think. Yeah. And just for myself to know that it's not,'cause for me, I knew it was this shape, but I thought that the shape was like going more like if you're standing up, it was going more into your back, I would say instead of going down like. On, right, right around framing. Yeah. Framing. And then you were like, where are it going? Now that I'm saying it, I'm like, it doesn't make sense,

Robin:

obviously, but Well, it's really hard to picture, right? Yeah. It's hard. And that's very common, right? Especially as you say, when we can't see it. Yeah. Another thing like that is sometimes when people are first using tampons, they're thinking the vagina's going straight up,

Sabrina:

oh, I had this problem. Absolutely. Me too. Yeah, I do. So it took me like probably four periods in order to be able to put in a tampon without it being uncomfortable. And my mom was like helping me. Oh yeah. My mom wanted to help me. And I was like,

Mathilde:

no, I can do it.

Robin:

I

Mathilde:

can do it. But yeah, I was going up a skill. You have to like learn and practice.

Robin:

so thinking about the vagina, aiming backwards in your body on a diagonal as opposed to straight up. So all of that, when we can't see it, how would we know? Like, and we, all we are kind of referencing is our spine. The spine goes up and down and things must either go laterally or the other way horizontally or vertically. So it is impossible to imagine. Unless you've seen diagrams. But you can also explore your body. And now you know that the clitoris. It's just under the surface of the skin. Yeah. All along there.

Mathilde:

So interesting. Even in some diagram you don't, well, most diagram you don't see it. I don't, they don't show the full thing. They just show it as like the little top

Sabrina:

part because I guess it would hard to show the whole, you need like a 3D diagram. You kind of do. That's But I mean, we do it for other things. Right. Yeah. So why haven't we done So just giving, that's a great point.

Robin:

Let's not leave it off. Just the medical stuff because it's pleasure. Let's not say that's not the important part. No, it is a really important part to know. And I think it would. With that sense that people might be a little bit more free in their exploration of the vulva. Right. Explore more areas and find other ways of touch that they really enjoy.

Mathilde:

Yeah. Yeah.'cause maybe for them, the clitoris, it's too sensitive as we said. Or like it'ss not necessarily the most fun part and then they think that's the only way to have pleasure out of it. So Yeah.

Robin:

And it might be that works for you. Terrific. Yeah. But you can certainly, there's orga other way and explore it, but we would still, people say like, I like a clitoral orgasm versus, you know, an internal or a vaginal orgasm. Well it all is a clitoral orgasm really given what we know about the structure on the inside.

Sabrina:

Okay. Another follow up question about the clitoris, which I don't know if this is a myth or fact. So curious, does it get hard kind of, I hate to comparison to male reproductive anatomy as if that's like the standard. But just for understanding, does it get hard like an erection?

Robin:

So I would say it gets. Harder. I wouldn't necessarily say like an erection, but there actually is a comparison to be made. So with an embryo, when an embryo is growing, that is actually the same tissue that either develops into a clitoris or develops into a penis. Oh, so it's similar in terms of its structure, so meaning it has the same inside as the penis in terms of it can become engorged with blood and grow in size and swell and get a little bit harder, but we don't see it or experience it in the same way.'cause it doesn't stand up from the body. Right. But it does enlarge in become engorged and so it definitely has those same spongy tissues on the inside that a penis does. But interestingly enough, it's actually the kura, the part on the inside that becomes more engorged. Yeah. And swells a little bit more. So that's why in terms of someone being aroused, you might see color changes in the vulva and the labia. You also might see some swelling that's under the labia, that whole vestibule area. There's something called the vestibular bulbs, which again are under the surface. They start to swell and puff out as does the clitoris on the inside as well. Interesting. So there's all sorts of swelling that's happening, so yes. And

Sabrina:

Okay. That's a great answer. Such good clarification.

Mathilde:

Now let's talk about the idea of popping the cherry. Yeah. Could you explain what this expression means, or if it's really a myth or if it's true? It does really hurt.

Robin:

not a fan of this expression. Nothing is popped, nothing is ripped. Nothing is torn. It doesn't quite like that. So when people say popping the cherry, they're usually talking about someone having maybe first intercourse and the hymen. Quote, breaking. So the hymen is a thin layer of skin, a membrane that covers the opening to the vagina. Now, the scientific word or the phrase, which I love, is vaginal corona. And I love to sing dun, no corona. And so that's the membrane, and it's there to protect the vagina to cover over the opening of the vagina. And you can see why this is necessary when you are a baby in a diaper and pooing everywhere. So we do not want feces and bacteria to get into the vagina. So the thought is that is protecting that bacteria from getting into the vagina. Interesting. Now again, Dr. Jen Cher kind of thinks of the hymen as baby teeth. It's something that serves a purpose when you're young. But people aren't necessarily born. People with vulvas aren't necessarily born with a thick, intact hymen. It can have little holes in it. It can be sort of stretchy from the beginning and over the course of time as someone grows up not related to intercourse, it can wear away. So through puberty, through hormones, through activities like bike riding, horseback riding, gymnastics, these are all things that can wear thin, open up those holes. So using things like tampons, inserting your own fingers, all of those can stretch and open that up, and so people may get you. First intercourse, sexual debut or inserting something for sexual pleasure in the vagina. And there isn't much of there anything at all. Now some people might have some remnants of that the first time something is being inserted in the vagina and so they might feel some discomfort if part of the hyman is still there. But it's not a sign of virginity. It is not a sign of whether you've had sex or not. Oh, how thick or present it is does not tell us anything about your sexual activity. Interesting. It is a membrane that wears away and what is left might cause a bit of bleeding and a bit of discomfort. The first time someone might have something inserted in the vagina for pleasure, but it doesn't give us a sense of whether they've had sex or not. And then if someone's having trouble inserting something, we would say just stretch it. Right. So that could be an in and out motion with your fingers or with a tampon applicator or with a small, dildo or something like that. An in and out motion can stretch that, but there are, for some people that membrane may or may not be present. If they at some point choose to insert something in the vagina for pleasure.

Sabrina:

Okay. I have a follow up question. If you get your period for the first time and your hymen was still hypothetically, fully intact at that point can the blood still come out of you?

Robin:

Great question. So usually there is an opening okay to it that would allow that to come out. Now there are some rare cases where the hymen is completely covered over and there isn't that opening and it's usually only sort of discovered when someone gets their period and the blood's not coming out. Okay. So in those rare situations, a doctor would create an opening in order for that menstrual blood to flow out. But that's very rare. So there's always gonna at least be some opening, usually, that the blood can come out Okay. When they get their first period. And more commonly, it'll be like Swiss cheese at that point. That's a good analogy. Yeah. With a number of holes, right. But it's very different. The variation is huge. Right? So some people might have insert something in their vagina for the first time and there's no blood, there's no stretching. It's worn away over time. Not because of past sexual activity. For other people it can be a little thicker, a little bit harder to open or break. And again, a doctor would probably assess that earlier. When someone's going through puberty. Okay. And it might need a little bit of help.

Sabrina:

So, interesting. I feel like I had a complete misunderstanding. Oh yeah. A whole situation.

Mathilde:

I was certain that it was your first sexual intercourse and this is when it breaks and it hurts. And that's, you have to go through that and then after that it becomes more fun. But it's, that was what I was thought, I think, or that's what I thought. All what you were told. Yeah.

Robin:

Well that's one of the biggest questions we actually get at sex sense. And it's one of the biggest questions that happens in anonymous question box in schools. Which is, will my first time hurt? Right. Yeah. And it's all this part of it may or ideally not, there's things you can do, which is like. Touching yourself, inserting something before. Being with a partner. Right. Whether that be masturbating feeling to see if there's any remnants of the Hyman there. And it is this whole myth that it equals virginity and we're getting away from like popping the cherry. I hate the phrase losing your virginity because ideally you're not losing anything. The first time you have sexual activity with someone. So we've moved away from that term to sexual debut. Which allows people, for some people that's not intercourse. That's not penis vagina sex. For some people, depending on their sexual orientation or what they wanna engage in, they can decide what they can consider their sexual debut. And it also allows for people who might have been sexually abused to not think of that as their first sexual experiences.'cause those were not consensual. But to choose a time with consensual sexual debut as the beginning of their. Sexual lives.

Sabrina:

I like that.

Mathilde:

Yeah, me too. Because it's true that we say I lost my lose. Yeah. As if someone's taking something from you. Exactly. Who wants to do that?

Robin:

No, we ideally, sexual debut, you are gaining something, whether that be pleasure, intimacy, connection with a person, fun, all those great things that are the reasons we have sex.

Sabrina:

Totally. All right. Let's move inwards.

Mathilde:

Yes. Okay. So now that we talked about the vulva, now we wanna talk a little bit or touch on the vaginal canal and then move on into the vagina. Which is a very impressive organ, I think. Yeah. It does a lot of things that we are gonna talk about. How does it expand and contract the vagina? Because it does and it's very impressive.

Robin:

Absolutely. It can expand Tencent centimeters wide when someone is giving birth. That's outrageous. And, but then also it can contract back. So we have muscles sort of in the second layer of the vagina on the inside that work like muscles, they can contract and expand. And a number of different things can cause that to happen. But one thing I wanna mention about the vagina first, and this is one of the reasons we don't say hole, or if we think about a canal, we're thinking about a tunnel and we're picturing something that's completely like a cylinder that's empty and holding negative space. And in fact, if we think about the vagina as the finger of a glove, that when there isn't a finger in it, the walls of the glove kind of lie against each other. So same with the vagina, the walls of the vagina. It's not contracted holding open space. Right. The walls of the vagina are lying against itself. Oh. And it's only when something is inserted like a tampon or a sex toy or a penis or a dildo, that it expands to allow for that. Same thing if a person was giving vaginal birth to a baby, it would expand to allow that. But it's not this gaping hole. Right. Not like, hello.

Mathilde:

Hi, I'm there. Did you know that? Yeah. Many people don't. And it's no fault of your own. And it is no shame, which is, how would you know this unless someone told you.

Robin:

And we weren't told this in school. I know this because I've gone to school for it and learned about it. But most people do not know this, so there is no shame in that. It is no fault of your omi. This information was not given to you. Yeah. And that's for all your listeners. And

Sabrina:

you might just assume it based on the way we talk about it in conversation or the way you see it on a diagram. Looks like it's open, but that's just so you can kind of see where it would be. Exactly. And

Robin:

so that's why we wanna kind of think about it elevate the language to better think about what that is so it is able to expand. Right. And so we know that sexual arousal is partly what makes that expansion happen. So when someone is aroused, so that's why we talk about, you know, foreplay, the type of touching an orgasm you might wanna have before having something inserted in the vagina, which gives the vagina some time to lubricate itself and to expand, to make things a little bit more comfy and fun.

Sabrina:

Love. Yeah. Okay. Another interesting thing about the vagina, I like to say it's a self-cleaning machine, but it's self cleans. What can you tell us about that? How does that all work?

Robin:

So it is, some people refer to it as a self-cleaning oven if you've got an oven that you've put on clean and it takes care of itself. And it is the cleanest opening in the human body. But I will respond to the idea of self-cleaning. It suggests that otherwise the vagina is dirty. And I have a colleague who says, we never say that about our noses or our nostrils. We don't say, do you have a self-cleaning nostril? Self-cleaning nose? Right. Kind of don't. The opposite is it's not clean and it needs to clean itself, right? It's not dirty to begin with.

Sabrina:

Love that point. Right?

Robin:

So maybe we could say, I'll come up with a phrase now. The well-balanced vagina. We have a well-balanced vagina and it keeps its balance, its pH balance in there on its own. So vaginal fluids. The vaginal fluids are also taking out, if you know you had some dirt or dust in there, or some bacteria, all those things are moving through with the fluids that travel down the vagina. Some people use the word discharge, which is, you know, for some people an icky word, but if we think about the vaginal fluids, then that's taking care of it and keeping it well balanced.

Mathilde:

Okay. And it's self lubricating. That's right. Lubricating. Lubricating.

Robin:

But a caveat. So we know that. For many people who have a vagina when they're aroused, it lubricates itself so people get wetter or have that sensation. But we would say that's not enough. So regardless of if you're someone, oh, I have lots of vaginal lubrication, add lubricant, add lube. If you are having sex for more than five minutes, if you're having something inserted into the vagina intercourse for more than five minutes, that's gonna dry up. It's not like a ongoing sprinkler system that's constantly coming the territory. It's natural for that lubrication to dry up or be used with the friction if you're having sex for longer than a few minutes. So we would say start with lubrication. And even if people say, I don't need that, it's not about need. Lubricant makes things more pleasurable, slippy more enjoyable. And it is also something that we also cannot assume someone's level of arousal based on.

Mathilde:

Oh yes. The dampness of the vagina. Right.

Robin:

So we know that someone might be totally into it, feeling totally aroused, and a partner might say, oh, are you not into it? You're feeling kind of dry. No the body, it's not like a one plus one equals two. The person knows whether they're aroused. And so adding lubricant allows us to know when we are aroused. But to not necessarily, that's not like the litmus test of whether someone's turned on or not, right? Same thing as the opposite. Someone might be feeling like there's quite a bit of vaginal lubrication. It's actually not sexual activity they're into, so the way, you know, if someone's into the sexual activity as you ask them, yeah. Are you enjoying this? But we would say, not counting on that as what's gonna make sex slippery and wet. Not assuming that's a sign someone is into it or not and to always add lubricant.

Sabrina:

Okay. A question about lubricant. I feel like people have a conception that adding things into the. Self-cleaning machine or whatnot could be harmful. Is there anything to suggest that adding lubricants is bad for your vaginal system? Is there some types people should avoid?

Robin:

Yeah, that's a great question. So it's really individual, like all of us in terms of our skin, some of us will have some moisturizer face wash that would make a friend breakout, right? Right. So it's our own bodies will be sensitive. So some people who have more sensitive skin, they can look for a quote, and I'm putting this in quotations. Natural, but without too much added sugar, you're not gonna wanna go with a flavored lube. Right? Is that something that's higher in sugar, which can throw off that balance of the vagina? Some people may find some lubricants irritating, but what's great is a lot of adult sex shops have pillow packs, trials of lubricant. Interesting. So you can sometimes get like, you know, combo platter, buy like 10 and try some different ones. See what feel good. There's different lubricants for different types of activity. So there might be something some people might use like, uh. A thicker globular one for anal intercourse. Right. You want something that has more staying power. Also because the rectum doesn't have a lubricating system. So those are things to consider, but it is just a matter of trying. But absolutely some people use coconut oil as lubricant, so that might be something that feels more natural or agree with their body. But just keeping in mind, we're not using anything with oil when we're using latex condoms.'cause anything oil based can break down latex condoms.

Mathilde:

Oh, that's a no. So you want

Robin:

water based or silicone type lubricants. So silicone are kind of a newer one. They've got good staying power as well. Water based lubricant, you're probably adding some more on as you're having sex. If you're having a real long, good episode, you might be adding in more. You can add even just a bit of water, which extends it. Silicone lubricants you're not gonna use with silicone sex toys. They stick to each other and adhere. So for condoms, you're only using water-based or silicone. If you're not using condoms or latex barrier, then you can use, any type you like, but you're not gonna use a silicone one with silicone toys.

Sabrina:

Oh, these are good things to know. Yeah. I've never even thought about it.

Robin:

Well, you wouldn't, and the array of lubricants is just mind boggling, right? Even if you go just to your local pharmacy, you're like, uh, which one do you choose?

Mathilde:

Yeah. And they're big and then they're pricey sometimes, so it's like Exactly. Yeah.

Robin:

So it is a matter of, you know, get some and a lot of sexual health clinics just have the basic kind sample pack. So any youth clinic options for sexual health clinic, STI clinics will have free condoms. In lube, you can take as many as you like. No one's gonna judge you. You can take them, even if you're not using them, you can take them to have them for your friends. So you can always have lubricant and condoms with you. You should never just pick up a condom. Pick up both together.

Sabrina:

Yeah. And if you're embarrassed for yourself, just say it's for your friends and then keep it for yourself. Exactly. But

Robin:

those of us who are working in sexual health. If you take 20 for yourself, I'm happy for you. Yeah, right. Like way to go. No shape, keep it going, pass'em out, whatever you like, no questions asked.

Sabrina:

Yeah. Okay. Love that answer. So moving beyond the vagina, we hit the cervix, which I think is often talked about in the context of like a pap smear or cervical cancer, which are like these scary things. But everyone has a cervix that has female reproductive system. Where is it? What is it?

Robin:

So the cervix is kind of the base or the bottom of the uterus. So we can think of it as the gateway to the uterus, right. So it's at the top of the vagina, and that's why, and people worry about this, you're not gonna lose your tampon into your uterus. So it can travel up. The opening to the cervix is called the os. It's a very small opening, very tiny, nothing is traveling up there. The cervix also releases fluids that can help with lubrication. And it's also through that opening through the, that menstrual blood will travel down from the uterus, down the vagina, and out the body. Okay. So it, it feels a little bit like the tip of your nose, like the cartilage at the tip of your nose. So if you touch your nose and if you wanna feel for your cervix. Which is something you might do, especially if you have an IUD'cause your strings of your IUD hang out through the opening of the cervix. And if you are checking for your IUD strings to make sure it's in place, then we would recommend either going into a squat position or putting a foot up on the edge of your bathtub or your toilet seat and inserting your two longest fingers and taking a sweep up at the top. Again, you're not pointing them straight up to the sky. You are angling back. You're gonna, I jokingly would say you take a left at your pubic bone, but you're gonna feel something hard in there, which is your pubic bone. But if you go up to the top of the vagina. You'll be able to feel that more easily in a squat position. You'll feel at sort of at the end that sort of cartilage, like the tip of your nose. And that's the cervix. Some people like that area touch during sexual activity, like something knocking against it. Other people in certain positions, it can get the cervix at a bad angle. That can be really ouchy. So if you're like, ooh, that, that doesn't feel good, change the position or change the depth of what's being inserted into the vagina you don't need to have that discomfort or pain.

Mathilde:

Interesting. So that's the cervix.

Robin:

But it is what opens to allow for a baby to be birthed through the vaginal canal. So that's something you probably hear, you know, on many medical shows. She's at five centimeters, she's at five, 10 centimeters, right as it's expanding.'cause it has to widen widen. But obviously that needs to be closed as the babies. Growing. Yes. It doesn't fall out to keep it in play so it doesn't fall out. Yeah. You can do your normal walkin activities or exercise without it falling out. But then when it's time, when the baby's being, that's part of what opens up. But that is to go back to what you were mentioning in your question. That is we take cells from the cervix to look for signs of human papillomavirus. Right. So your pop test, and now commonly it's cervical screening is checking the cells of the cervix for the strains of HPV that can in rare situations lead to changes of the cells of the cervix, which could lead to cancer.

Sabrina:

Okay. I feel like I understand the cervix now. I don't know about you. Yeah, I do. At your cervix

Mathilde:

love. Moving on inwards. Yes. Moving on to the uterus. So where. A baby can grow, I think. Yeah. Right. So can you tell us a little bit about this?

Robin:

So the uterus is, it is where a baby can grow, but it might never have that happen. So the uterus is biologically, that's what it's meant for to give opportunity for a pregnancy to happen and continue. So that's why monthly, and I'm sure you're gonna have a session on menstruation and learn more about that'll. We'll, so I'll not go way down that, uh, avenue at this point, but the uterus every month kind of builds up a lining, which could be where a fertilized egg might implant and start to grow and nourish and create an environment for a pregnancy to develop over the course of those months should someone decide to continue with a pregnancy.

Sabrina:

Okay. And then when that lining sheds what happens?

Robin:

So when nothing happens or there isn't a fertilized egg because you've used excellent contraception or you're not putting sperm up there and there's nothing to meet the egg, then that egg dissolves and that lining. Or when teaching young kids in school, we might talk about build up a water bed because it's mostly water. With some blood in it, that lining starts to shed and in order to have a fresh one built up, a fresh water bed made for the next month, potential fertilized, hopeful egg, and so that lining sheds out through your vagina over the course of maybe five to seven days and comes out as your period.

Mathilde:

I have a follow up question on that. Sometimes the blood that comes out is not necessarily like super bright red, beautiful blood. Yeah. Sometimes it's a different color, maybe more brownish colors. That's right. Is that normal?

Robin:

Absolutely. So oftentimes people will see that brown, which I would. Conjecture is just as beautiful as the bright red blood. Yes. Because it's all normal. It's all in the realm of usual. is that brown blood we might commonly see at the beginning of a period or at the very end. And so medically, sometimes what happens, it might be some kind of older or dried blood that's kind of oxidized in the vagina, might have hung around a little bit longer, but that is part of it. So it's not necessarily like a bright right color. It can really vary in terms of being a deeper red, a browner color. That's all part people might also find if someone's ovulating and not on any type of contraception, which stops ovulation, that when they ovulate, they might have a tinge of vaginal fluids of that kind of egg white type or prior to egg white, that sticky discharge that can happen around ovulation time. That can sometimes be tinged with blood as well. That's also normal. That can happen during ovulation. Interesting. But if people are having lots of. Spotting and bleeding, not around their period of time, and they're not on hormonal birth control. That's something that they could talk to their doctor about. Or if someone are having bright red blood after intercourse, that's something they could talk to a doctor about.

Sabrina:

Okay. Good clarification. Yeah. Okay. And then moving on upwards, inwards, one of those from the uterus, we have these two little tubes that then bring us to the ovaries. What are the ovaries, what are they up to?

Robin:

So the ovaries are where the eggs grow. So the eggs that could potentially be fertilized by a sperm and develop into a baby if someone continued with a pregnancy. So the amount of eggs or ova that people have when they're born are about 2 million. Wow. 2 million. We were all born, all just hanging out there. Ovaries born with 2 million. Now they're not all fully formed. So only about 40,000 of those mature over the course of your lifespan and get released, potentially. But the fun fact about the ovaries. So if you think about the egg. That made who you are. So every person started as an egg that originated in your grandmother's body. So your mother would've been born with all those eggs, those 2 million eggs, one of which became you developed into you. And that was formed when your mother was in utero in your grandmother.

Mathilde:

Wow.

Robin:

So the beginning of you was in your grandmother's womb. And I think that's just an amazing, biological, fun fact. Yeah. And all of us started as an egg. Everyone, no matter what, your gender started as an egg in your grandmother's womb.

Sabrina:

Sick. Yeah. Isn't that wild? That's awesome. Yeah. It's like if you're not close with your grandmother now, you should be. Yeah. You should thank her at some point. Yeah. Very close. Yeah. No, that's awesome. Wow. And the ovaries also have a lot of hormonal functions, right? Yeah. Can you tell us anything about that? Not too in depth.'cause we will talk about hormones in another podcast, but

Robin:

Absolutely. So in the whole reproductive system there you have hormones that are triggering things. The brain triggers goes back and forth. This communication between the hormones, the system, the brain, and that are things that are related to puberty changes and also related to menstruation. And the hormonal changes that happen throughout pregnancy.

Mathilde:

Okay. All right. So we. Walked through the uterus and then went up to the ovaries. But before that we forgot to talk about the fallopian tubes. Right? The little tubes that link the uterus to the ovaries. Could you tell us a little bit more about what's their role? Why do we have these little tubes?

Sabrina:

They're often overlooked. Like I just

Mathilde:

overlooked them. Yes. Well,

Robin:

so they are the highway from the ovaries that deliver the egg to where it might be fertilized. Okay. But they aren't just a highway because they do kind of nourish and sustain the egg as it travels along. Gives it what its needs to be healthy along that journey. And then it's a common misconception again,'cause we weren't taught this, that an egg is released and sits in the uterus. And might meet a sperm. In fact, the what happens when the sperm might be the egg is actually in the fallopian tube. So the egg travels up to kind of where the fallopian tube meets the uterus, and if a sperm meets it and eggs and it's gonna be viable and continue at that point and keep growing and multiplying, then it travels out into the uterus where it might embed in the lining of the uterus and continue to grow. Okay. So we talked about that lining uterus.

Sabrina:

So is that how some people have ectopic pregnancies in the fallopian tube? Exactly. Is because it meets up

Robin:

there, but it doesn't make its way down to the uterus. That's exactly it. So in a situation, and this is very rare, that this can happen with pregnancies, and it's a very serious medical condition and someone would have to go to emergency again, very rare. Someone might have a missed period, extreme abdominal pain, those are things that they would wanna get checked about. They might have bleeding as well. In that situation, what has happened is that in the fallopian tubes, the egg has been fertilized by a sperm and instead of traveling on, it continues to grow in the fallopian tube, which does not have room for it. Right. And it can cause a rupture there. Okay. Which is very dangerous for people.

Sabrina:

Okay. But normally they're just connecting the tube normally travels on down. That's right. Okay. It's like the meek Cute. Yes. And then it moves on into like the home. Yes. Beautiful. Gets the first apartment, the uterus. I like thinking about it like that. Yeah. Okay. So we've actually answered a lot of our questions that people submitted just through this interview and walkthrough. But one thing we didn't touch on, is about boobs. And specifically about why some females have bigger boobs than others.

Robin:

Great question. So, it's one of those things that, like many parts of our bodies, why is my nose bigger? Why do I have ears that more project from my side of my head than other people? A big part of it is genetics. So in terms of your breast size, you could look at your mom, your sisters, your aunts, your grandmothers, and you might see a trend genetically for a size of breast. It's something that is not necessarily related to the other parts of your body. So, uh, someone with a certain hip measurement could as equally have. Smaller sized breasts or bigger sized breasts. Some with smaller hips could have bigger sized breasts or smaller size. So it's not necessarily proportional. We do know that inside the breasts we have both our mammary glands and some soft fatty tissue. And so it's that amount of soft fatty tissue, which makes a difference to what the size of the breasts are. Okay. So someone with more of that soft fatty tissue might have bigger breasts and someone with less of that might have smaller breasts. We do know that, in a situation where someone might lose or gain weight, that may change the size of your breast due to that fatty tissue. Bulking up or lessening like it might be on other parts of your body, but it's not actually related to the proportion of your body, more to your genetics

Mathilde:

and certain contraceptive. Oh yeah. Uh, cause like an increase in breast. Yeah. From personal experience. Yeah.

Robin:

And actually many different things cause change in breast size. Right. So that could be of course going through puberty. It can be certain contraception, it can be cyclical even if you aren't on contraception. So you might notice more breast tenderness around the time you get your period when you're kind of feeling bloated other places as well. So that's a time that someone might notice it. Certainly being on contraception can make a difference getting pregnant. That's one of the first things people might notice even before a missed period, is changes in their nipples or their breasts or a tenderness even before a missed period. Going through pregnancy, breastfeeding or chest feeding, that is something that's gonna really change the shape of your breast, both during that time period and afterwards. So there are a number of different components and like the vulva, all variations are completely normal. And healthy. If that is something that's part of your pleasure zone, does not matter the size.

Sabrina:

Okay, our next question is from an audience member. Which direction should I be wiping after I pee?

Robin:

This is a good hygiene question, and it's something that we do certainly teach young people with vulvas to wipe front to back. And the reason is something we've talked on earlier is that we do not wanna get any bacteria from our bums, from our anuses, from feces, from stool, getting into either the vagina or into the urethra. So some of the listeners may have had UTIs, urinary tract infections, bladder infections, and that can happen when bacteria gets into the urethra. So the concern is for little kids to get in there and wipe back to front smearing some feces forward smearing bacteria forward. Right. So the front to back allows us to make sure kids are never wiping that bacteria into that area.

Sabrina:

Now, once you are an adult and you kind of know where the bits are, you've got the control. Yes. Interesting. You, like,

Robin:

you are able to pretty easily, when you wipe yourself, if you wipe back to front, you're not starting way at your anus, right? Yes. Like if you've just peed you're not starting at your anus. Certainly if you're wiping your bum right front to back, I don't think anyone's smearing down when they're your right. But in terms of if you've just had a pee, you could do back to front. Because you can feel where you are, you can feel that, oh, I've kind of, at my vagina, I'm gonna go forward from there. Right. I'm not going all the way to the back. And if you have grown up wiping front to back when you pee, that works too. For some people that can be, their arms might not be quite long enough. Certain toilets, it might be harder to do it. So it might be uncomfortable. So if you're fairly clear of, you know, where your anus is in relationship Right. To where now you know, where your urethra is just up above of the vagina, you're not gonna go as far back. Another recommendation is just to kind of pad itip. You can just do a little pat that way as well.

Mathilde:

Yes. I was hoping you would say that I didn't wanna change the way I do it.

Robin:

No, you don't need to. I mean, like, if you are someone who is struggling with UTIs, maybe that's something you look at, Ooh, I should look at my wiping or there, there could be other things not related to user error. Right.

Sabrina:

That's great clarification. That's good to know because we talked about it yesterday. Yeah. And our run roommate was like, how could you not always do front to back? And we were like. I know I'm supposed to,

Robin:

once you know where that anus is and you're clear when you're, and you've, you know, if you've had a vulva and been working it for a while you know how far back you're wiping.

Sabrina:

Yes. Right? Yes. Okay. Great clarification. Well that seems like it's all of our

Mathilde:

questions from our audience. Yeah. So to wrap up, where can our listeners go to get some more information about their sexual health to answer their questions? Yeah,

Robin:

well I am so glad you asked. You can call us at Sex Sense. So sex sense, again, the program that I work for with sex experts who are registered nurses and certified sexual health educators, we are open Monday to Friday, 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM And so people can call us throughout BC at one eight hundred seven three nine seven three six seven one eight hundred seven three nine seven three six seven. And then locally in the lower mainland, 6 0 4 7 3 1 7 8 0 3, you don't have to remember this'cause you can just go to sex sense.org. So sex sense.org. We also have an email form there. So if you don't wanna call and ask your question, you can email us and we'll get back to you. If it's a business day, usually the same day, maybe the next day. If it's a really busy day you can call and you can ask as many questions as you like. So the great thing about our service too, which is different from say a doctor's appointment. There's no time limit. There's no limit on the questions. So we have 45 minute conversations about herpes. We can again, talk to you about your gender identity or sexual orientation if you want to know where to go for some pro-choice pregnancy counseling. We refer people to abortion providers. We let people know where they can go for an IUD or an implant. We can talk about sexual functioning, someone's having erection issues or self lubrication issues, perhaps if someone's noticing that. So we can talk about all of those things in a non-judgmental sex positive way, you don't need to give your care card. You don't need to give your name. You don't need to tell us other than what we need to know to best answer your question.

Mathilde:

Yeah. So we're so lucky to have access to that. So if you have any questions, use it. It's so important. And we're gonna also put all of their information under our episode. Yeah. So great.

Sabrina:

Fantastic. Okay, two wrap up questions that we like to ask are. Interviewees. First one is, what is one insight you wish every person knew about women's health generally?

Robin:

I think the insight I would want every person who has a vulva to know is that there has been so much excellent research in recent years about pleasure, arousal, and the sexual response. We have had a lot of robust, excellent research now, and it will really help you understand what's going on with your libido and, your sex drive arousal, what turns you on, what doesn't? And so I really suggest some books. One is Come As You Are by Emily Naski. She developed this dual model of sexual response. And rather than thinking like, you know, stimuli turned on, you know, rage or like, that kind of linear way is not actually how bodies work usually. And she talks about the dual model of desire, which has a brake system and a gas pedal, and the things that depress the gas pedal or the brakes are completely individual from person to person. So one great example she gives is someone might be stressed about they have an exam coming and sex is the last thing they wanna have, right? Like that's the stress about the exam is putting the brakes on, but other people are stressed and they want the sex in order to discharge some of that stress. So different things do the GA and it can really help understand sexual discordance and desire, desire discordance when we have two people or multiple people who are relating in different ways in terms of when one wants sex and the other person doesn't. Uh, we also have a great book called Better Sex Through Mindfulness by Lori Brodo, who is a BC writer, uh, Vancouverite, who has done incredible research. Dr. Lori Brodo. We love Lori. Yeah. And that is an incredible book. So again, learning a lot about what actually causes people to be in touch with their sex drives to feel aroused. What circumstances do you need in order to feel you can explore yourself or yourself with someone else sexually? So I highly recommend like that insight into what is actually going on with our sex drives and pleasure, and what's putting the brakes on and what depresses our gas pedal is an inside I wish everyone could learn a bit more about.

Mathilde:

Yeah, that's such a good answer. I love that. Okay, well thank you Robin. We have one last question and it's a really big one, but we wanna ask most of our interviewee. What's one change that you hope to see in women's health in the next 10 years?

Robin:

I'm gonna say two. Yes. One is the eradication of cervical cancer. So with the vaccine, the HPV, the human papilloma vaccine, that is, it's the only vaccine we have that prevents against certain cancers. So not just cervical cancer, but some cancers of the mouth. And the tongue. Anal cancers. Vulva cancers that can be eradicated or largely non-existent from, using the vaccine. And so the vaccine as you may know, is given to school age children before there's any sexual activity. That's how it can be most effective. But anyone who is sexually active, and so we're looking at the age range up to 45, but people or over 45 can speak with their doctor, whether it be appropriate for them as well, because people are sexually active, class 45. But that's what we have our research and our approvals right now. But that is something that could be a huge change to cancer, specifically cervical cancer with that vaccine. In terms of the change I hope to see in the next 10 years is largely what's happening here today and with your podcast, that these conversations are commonplace. That they are shame free, that they allow us to express ourselves, that we have the access to the information we need, that we can communicate our needs to partners, to sexual partners. That we can have these conversations with our children, that we can talk to our doctors and nurses about what's going on with our bodies. We can seek the care we need, want, deserve. We can have the pleasure that we have a right to, and have the body autonomy that we deserve. And that is a human right and the access to pleasure that bodies have built in.

Sabrina:

Yes, love. What a great way to wrap up the podcast. Wow. So you're doing it. Thanks for getting us there. 10 years. Set the timer. 10 years from now, we'll be 10 years into the VUL evolution. Everyone will have all the information they want and be talking about vulvas everywhere. Absolutely. That's our

Mathilde:

goal to that.

Sabrina:

And then they're gonna

Mathilde:

know the difference between a vulva and a vagina,

Sabrina:

especially after this episode. Yeah, they sure are. And they're gonna take a look if they have them. And figure out what's what down there. Yes. Yeah. Perfect. Well thank you so much for joining us today, Robin. Thank you. Yeah. You've answered so many questions. We learned a lot, probably of more after this. And you

Robin:

can call us at sex sense. Yes. And we can, if any of these you wanna ask a bit more about, give us a call and we'll chat more about it.

Sabrina:

Beautiful. Well thank you so much. Thank you.